Hi Bengt,
Do you mean the 0-10V needs to be optoisolated?
If so, you might look for a 3rd party board that converts either Step/Dir or PWM to 0-10V in an optoisolated manner.
TK
| Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 652 |
From: Bengt Sjoelund |
Date: 9/17/2010 |
| Subject: Re: 0-10V for VFD |
Well there seems to be many kinds of VFD's that are not so well isolated from mains on the controll input, many only designed to control via potentiometer.
I have to dig in to my VFD (not yet powered up) and see if it has isolated controll input or not.
If so with isolaton, how can we connect this to Kanalog? JP11 and how is then controlled from Mach3?
Cheers
Bengt
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> Do you mean the 0-10V needs to be optoisolated?
>
> If so, you might look for a 3rd party board that converts either Step/Dir or PWM
> to 0-10V in an optoisolated manner.
>
> TK
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:35:19 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] 0-10V for VFD
>
> Â
> Hi Tom,
> What is the best way to control a VFD that needs 0-10V and optoisolation from
> Kanalog?
> Cheers
> Bengt
> |
|
| Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 653 |
From: Bengt Sjoelund |
Date: 9/17/2010 |
| Subject: Re: 0-10V for VFD |
http://elektronikforumet.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1270&mode=view
http://elektronikforumet.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1272&mode=view
As you can see this Mitsubishi FR-A540-3,7 can be controlled with ±10V BUT how can this be don as you can NOT earth the signal and the signal is grounded as far as I know in Kanalog.
Your advise in this matter is very much appreciated on how to solve this.
Cheers
Bengt
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> Well there seems to be many kinds of VFD's that are not so well isolated from mains on the controll input, many only designed to control via potentiometer.
> I have to dig in to my VFD (not yet powered up) and see if it has isolated controll input or not.
> If so with isolaton, how can we connect this to Kanalog? JP11 and how is then controlled from Mach3?
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> >
> > Do you mean the 0-10V needs to be optoisolated?
> >
> > If so, you might look for a 3rd party board that converts either Step/Dir or PWM
> > to 0-10V in an optoisolated manner.
> >
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:35:19 AM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] 0-10V for VFD
> >
> > Â
> > Hi Tom,
> > What is the best way to control a VFD that needs 0-10V and optoisolation from
> > Kanalog?
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
>
|
|
| Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 654 |
From: Bengt Sjoelund |
Date: 9/17/2010 |
| Subject: Re: 0-10V for VFD |
OOPS
http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=867201082306P0d7f
http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=d37201082535P43af
I hope the pictures are OK this time
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> http://elektronikforumet.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1270&mode=view
> http://elektronikforumet.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1272&mode=view
>
> As you can see this Mitsubishi FR-A540-3,7 can be controlled with ±10V BUT how can this be don as you can NOT earth the signal and the signal is grounded as far as I know in Kanalog.
>
> Your advise in this matter is very much appreciated on how to solve this.
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> >
> > Well there seems to be many kinds of VFD's that are not so well isolated from mains on the controll input, many only designed to control via potentiometer.
> > I have to dig in to my VFD (not yet powered up) and see if it has isolated controll input or not.
> > If so with isolaton, how can we connect this to Kanalog? JP11 and how is then controlled from Mach3?
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bengt,
> > >
> > > Do you mean the 0-10V needs to be optoisolated?
> > >
> > > If so, you might look for a 3rd party board that converts either Step/Dir or PWM
> > > to 0-10V in an optoisolated manner.
> > >
> > > TK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:35:19 AM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] 0-10V for VFD
> > >
> > > Â
> > > Hi Tom,
> > > What is the best way to control a VFD that needs 0-10V and optoisolation from
> > > Kanalog?
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> >
> |
|
| Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 655 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 9/17/2010 |
| Subject: Re: 0-10V for VFD |
Hi Bengt,
Yes I see they say not to "earth" the Analog Ground signal. It might be because they have separate Digital and Analog grounds tied together at one point internally, so they don't want any ground loops. You might check with an ohm meter if that Analog Ground is connected to their digital ground. In that case you may not need to connect it. Or connect it through a resistor.
Hey, if you only need a slow but isolated voltage, you might be able to just use a capacitor and use a Kanalog opto isolated output to PWM it with software. It has a 10K ohm input impedence so for example a 100uF cap with a 1K ohm would have a time constant of 0.1sec. I think you could write a KFlop User Program to PWM with a 5KHz "Clock" that wouldn't have too much ripple.
TK
| Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 656 |
From: Bengt Sjoelund |
Date: 9/17/2010 |
| Subject: Re: 0-10V for VFD |
Thanks Tom,
I will do some 'research' tomorrow as regards grounds in the VFD.
Cheers
Bengt
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> Yes I see they say not to "earth" the Analog Ground signal.  It might be
> because they have separate Digital and Analog grounds tied together at one point
> internally, so they don't want any ground loops. You might check with an ohm
> meter if that Analog Ground is connected to their digital ground. In that case
> you may not need to connect it. Or connect it through a resistor.Â
>
>
> Hey, if you only need a slow but isolated voltage, you might be able to just use
> a capacitor and use a Kanalog opto isolated output to PWM it with software.  It
> has a 10K ohm input impedence so for example a 100uF cap with a 1KÂ ohm would
> have a time constant of 0.1sec. I think you could write a KFlop User Program to
> PWM with a 5KHz "Clock" that wouldn't have too much ripple. Â
>
> TK
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 11:26:05 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 0-10V for VFD
>
> Â
> OOPS
> http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=867201082306P0d7f
> http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=d37201082535P43af
> I hope the pictures are OK this time
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> >
> > http://elektronikforumet.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1270&mode=view
> > http://elektronikforumet.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1272&mode=view
> >
> > As you can see this Mitsubishi FR-A540-3,7 can be controlled with ñ10V BUT how
> >can this be don as you can NOT earth the signal and the signal is grounded as
> >far as I know in Kanalog.
> >
> > Your advise in this matter is very much appreciated on how to solve this.
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Well there seems to be many kinds of VFD's that are not so well isolated from
> >mains on the controll input, many only designed to control via potentiometer.
> > > I have to dig in to my VFD (not yet powered up) and see if it has isolated
> >controll input or not.
> >
> > > If so with isolaton, how can we connect this to Kanalog? JP11 and how is then
> >controlled from Mach3?
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > >
> > > > Do you mean the 0-10V needs to be optoisolated?
> > > >
> > > > If so, you might look for a 3rd party board that converts either Step/Dir
> >or PWM
> >
> > > > to 0-10V in an optoisolated manner.
> > > >
> > > > TK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:35:19 AM
> > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] 0-10V for VFD
> > > >
> > > > ÃÂ
> > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > What is the best way to control a VFD that needs 0-10V and optoisolation
> >from
> >
> > > > Kanalog?
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Bengt
> > > >
> > >
> >
> |
|
| Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 657 |
From: Bengt Sjoelund |
Date: 9/18/2010 |
| Subject: Re: 0-10V for VFD |
Hi Tom,
It is obviously so that isolated control signal is needed for all VFD's. I have got many replies on the Swedish forum pointing out this. So my options are either get something done using JP13 Opto outputs or have a step/dir isolated board like C6 from CNC4PC.
I would like to have Kflop/Kanlog do the job. What is needed to get say 0-5V via PWM? Is it possible to use the schematics I have in the files section for my Beacon as a base, not 24V but maybe 10V to get 0-5V out? What more would be needed, cap + res in series to VFD control input?
Cheers
Bengt
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Tom,
> I will do some 'research' tomorrow as regards grounds in the VFD.
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> >
> > Yes I see they say not to "earth" the Analog Ground signal.  It might be
> > because they have separate Digital and Analog grounds tied together at one point
> > internally, so they don't want any ground loops. You might check with an ohm
> > meter if that Analog Ground is connected to their digital ground. In that case
> > you may not need to connect it. Or connect it through a resistor.Â
> >
> >
> > Hey, if you only need a slow but isolated voltage, you might be able to just use
> > a capacitor and use a Kanalog opto isolated output to PWM it with software.  It
> > has a 10K ohm input impedence so for example a 100uF cap with a 1KÂ ohm would
> > have a time constant of 0.1sec. I think you could write a KFlop User Program to
> > PWM with a 5KHz "Clock" that wouldn't have too much ripple. Â
> >
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 11:26:05 AM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 0-10V for VFD
> >
> > Â
> > OOPS
> > http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=867201082306P0d7f
> > http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=d37201082535P43af
> > I hope the pictures are OK this time
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > http://elektronikforumet.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1270&mode=view
> > > http://elektronikforumet.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1272&mode=view
> > >
> > > As you can see this Mitsubishi FR-A540-3,7 can be controlled with ñ10V BUT how
> > >can this be don as you can NOT earth the signal and the signal is grounded as
> > >far as I know in Kanalog.
> > >
> > > Your advise in this matter is very much appreciated on how to solve this.
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Well there seems to be many kinds of VFD's that are not so well isolated from
> > >mains on the controll input, many only designed to control via potentiometer.
> > > > I have to dig in to my VFD (not yet powered up) and see if it has isolated
> > >controll input or not.
> > >
> > > > If so with isolaton, how can we connect this to Kanalog? JP11 and how is then
> > >controlled from Mach3?
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Bengt
> > > >
> > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you mean the 0-10V needs to be optoisolated?
> > > > >
> > > > > If so, you might look for a 3rd party board that converts either Step/Dir
> > >or PWM
> > >
> > > > > to 0-10V in an optoisolated manner.
> > > > >
> > > > > TK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:35:19 AM
> > > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] 0-10V for VFD
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÂ
> > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > > What is the best way to control a VFD that needs 0-10V and optoisolation
> > >from
> > >
> > > > > Kanalog?
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Bengt
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> |
|
| Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 658 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 9/18/2010 |
| Subject: Re: 0-10V for VFD |
Hi Bengt,
I was thinking of a ~100uF cap connected from the VFD input (and VFD Analog Ground). Then connect the VFD +10V supply through a Kanalog opto output, through a1 K ohm resistor to the VFD input. (you also may need a resistor (~10K) in parallel with the cap if the VFD input isn't like a resistance).
The program below will PWM Opto output #0. It uses a bit reversal technique to reduce output ripple. So for example if the PWM value is 100, then instead of being on for 100 "clocks" and then off for 156 clocks, it counts 0 through 255 in a somewhat random order where 100 of the times it will be on and 156 times it will be off.
The output will be non-linear, but if it works that can be corrected. I haven't tested this :}
TK
#include "KMotionDef.h"
main()
{
int i=0,k;
int v=100; // desired output voltage
for (;;)
{
WaitNextTimeSlice();
k = ((i&1) << 7)| // bit reverse i
((i&2) << 5)|
((i&4) << 3)|
((i&8) << 1)|
((i&16) >> 1)|
((i&32) >>
3)|
((i&64) >> 5)|
((i&128) >> 7);
if (k >= v)
SetBit(144);
else
ClearBit(144);
i = ++i & 255; // 8 bit counter
}
}
| Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 659 |
From: Bengt Sjoelund |
Date: 9/18/2010 |
| Subject: Re: 0-10V for VFD |
Hi Tom,
Can you have a look in Files section, JP13 to VFD.pdf
Cheers
Bengt
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> I was thinking of a ~100uF cap connected from the VFD input (and VFD Analog
> Ground). Then connect the VFD +10V supply through a Kanalog opto output,
> through a1 K ohm resistor to the VFD input. (you also may need a resistor
> (~10K) in parallel with the cap if the VFD input isn't like a resistance).
>
> The program below will PWM Opto output #0. It uses a bit reversal technique to
> reduce output ripple.  So for example if the PWM value is 100, then instead of
> being on for 100 "clocks" and then off for 156 clocks, it counts 0 through 255
> in a somewhat random order where 100 of the times it will be on and 156 times it
> will be off.
>
> The output will be non-linear, but if it works that can be corrected. I haven't
> tested this :}
> TK
>
>
> #include "KMotionDef.h"
> main()
> {
> Â Â Â int i=0,k;
> Â Â Â int v=100;Â // desired output voltage
> Â
> Â Â Â for (;;)
> Â Â Â {
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â WaitNextTimeSlice();
> Â Â
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â k = ((i&1)Â Â << 7)|Â // bit reverse i
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ((i&2)Â Â << 5)|
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ((i&4)Â Â << 3)|
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ((i&8)Â Â << 1)|
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ((i&16)Â >> 1)|
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ((i&32)Â >> 3)|
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ((i&64)Â >> 5)|
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ((i&128) >> 7);
> Â
> Â Â Â Â Â if (k >= v)
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â SetBit(144);
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â else
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ClearBit(144);
> Â Â Â
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â i = ++i & 255;Â // 8 bit counter
> Â Â Â }
> }
> |
|
| Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 660 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 9/19/2010 |
| Subject: Re: 0-10V for VFD |
Bengt,
Exactly what I was thinking.
TK
| Group: DynoMotion |
Message: 661 |
From: Tom Kerekes |
Date: 9/19/2010 |
| Subject: Re: 0-10V for VFD |
Bengt,
Exactly what I was thinking
| | | | | | | | | |
